Tuesday, April 10, 2007

Zimbio Debate Part I

On a seperate website called "zimbio" under the category "war in Iraq" I have been posting my most recent articles as a means of reaching more people. One of my articles, "Bush: The Boy In The Political Bubble" recieved some feedback from a very conservative blogger. I will include our humble debate here on my blog because I think it is valuable in the sense that it reveals a little bit about some of the conservative views in America today and how I respond to them. I would suggest reading the article posted on my blog before reading the following debate.
Jason: Didn't anybody tell you not to drink the Kool-Aid? Wake up and face the facts. President Bush did not lie. If he did so did numerous members of the now anti-war left. Just to break it down for the slow among us, Saddam and his regime had nothing to do with September 11th, 2001. But that is not the point, the point is that we realized who we were up against and we began to take action 1 regime at a time. Remember, Germany never attacked us either.
P.R.: First of all, for the slow among us, Germany did not attack us but Japan did which was part of an alliance known as the axis of evil. Sound familiar in modern times? Second of all, what gives the United States the right to "take action 1 regime at a time"? That must be some kind of prick with his hand on the red button. Also, President Bush did lie and it is a poor defense to say, "well if he did so did the anti-war left". This war is a joke and those who support it need to wake up and face the facts. And the Kool-Aid pun was a flop.
Jason: PR, Just listen to what you are saying. Yes, of course we all know about the tripartrite treaty and the flow of world events there after. Also, it is not a poor defense to say that President Bush along with the leaders of 6 other major, industrialized countries and numerous members of the US Congress all saw the same intel reports. Great Britian was the largest contributor with dossier that was over 200 pages in length with intel as recent as FEB 2003. Now, I will assume that you have not been to Iraq and are thus blissfully ignorant as to what is really happening there. I have been twice and will be returning in mid-2008 so I have just a bit of first hand knowledge. What was the lie, specifically? WMD? Ties to terror groups? Paying the families of suicide bombers? All facts and all true. Wait, wait, wait, you say we found no WMD. All that I can speak to is what has been declassified. Abu-massab Al-zarquawi was operating a terror camp in northeast Iraq before the war SF troops took it out in the opening minutes of the war. Terror group ties? Proven. Saddam paid the equivalent of $25,000 to the families of every suicide bomber to pull the cord in Isreal. Proven fact. Now as for the WMD. No, we did not find it. But in the last several weeks, there have been at least 4 attacks using...gasp...chlorine gas. Also, I was a part of a special security mission in which we had to wear all of chemical defense gear to secure a certain site in a remote area of Iraq. So far as what is declassified there were no WMD in Iraq at the time of the invasion. Check with Syria, they should know more. In fact maybe Speaker Pelosi could have asked while she was consorting with our enemies. So you can read what you will in whatever left wing rag you choose, or as I said before, get actual factual information before making such inflamatory remarks. Also, some new lines of criticism would be nice the "Bush lied and soldiers died" crap is pretty old.
P.R.: First, I would like to address that I am proud of your service to this country. Second of all, I never used the term, "Bush lied and soldiers died" so pin that line on someone else with limited rhyming capability. Yes, there have been ties to Saddam and suicide bombers in Israel. But that wasn't what this administration and others used to as the main point for going to war, was it? The chlorine gas wasn't used in Iraq until we invaded. WMD's, the reason we went to war, were never found. The intel wasn't what was bad unfortunately. The way it was interpreted by those with war agendas in the White House, though, was bad. As for being blissfully ignorant, I wish I had that luxury...but I don't. And though I haven't been to Iraq it does not mean that I am wrong. My opinion is as valid as yours and the only difference is ideology and not facts. And to answer your question, "What was the lie, specifically?" the answer is WMDs. Whether other reasons for invading Iraq are noble or not, what remains undisputed is that this administration used WMDs to convince America to go to war...not links to Palestinian suicide bombers...WMDs. I do not believe that we have the right to play political God and decide who holds power and who does not. The entire argument for war with Iraq has holes in it and I don't think that we should be there. Saddam was an ass, yes. But was he a threat to America as Bush claimed, no. Perhaps the reason Bush lied was because he knew it wouldn't strike a patriotic cord with Americans to have brave soldiers like you dying for oil profits? Either way, if you feel that being in Iraq is where we belong then I am glad you are there fighting for America and I wish you the best of luck and a safe return.P.R.
Jason: I appriciate the fact that you find my service to our country noble. I have decided that no matter what proven facts I write here or which clear inferences should be drawn, there will always be those on the left whose ideology differs a great deal from mine and is therfore used to spin inaccurate and even made up information into "truth". Try as I may I can never convince such people that what they are saying and thinking is actually wrong and even damaging to our country. Those who think being blissfully ignorant is a luxury. So having said that I need to go talk to my accountant about the obscene profits I am making from this "oil war" thanks to a President who "lied for me" and his gang of co-conspiritors who also "misinterpreted" very clear intel reports. In all seriousness though, I truly hope that those on the left see the light before it is too late and terrorist pacification leads to destruction of our country. I will pray that those who will defend us are eventually elected to all governmental offices. Let's not repeat history by not learning from it. I love my country and I want it around for several thousand more years.
P.R.: It is true that convincing people of something they do not believe in is difficult and sometimes even impossible. I have remained as open as I can for some time and I am yet to find information persuasive enough to deter me from my beliefs. I am sorry that you feel that any ideology that does not match yours is used to "spin inaccurate and even made up information into 'truth'". And unfortunately for you, your accountant will have some bad news because those in power making the profits care little for those giving their lives for them. I, too pray that people will soon see the light but with so many differing views, I'm afraid they will be blinded from all the bull crap floating around. And if we are not to repeat history, perhaps we should not elect those with war in their veins to "all governmental offices". I believe we have already seen what that can accomplish. If America is to survive for several thousand more years then we should focus less on making distant enemies and more on waging peace. Either way, this debate has been productive as far as I'm concerned and I wish to thank you again for your service to our country and while I may not support this war, I support you.P.R.


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